Mubarak: Gaza Will Never Be Part of Egypt

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Mubarak: Gaza Will Never Be Part of Egypt

To prove that the Arabs are more interested in the eventual destruction of Israel than they are in the plight of the poor Arab-Palestinians, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in an Italian newspaper that Gaza will never be part of Egypt, and that the Israeli atempt to strangle Hamas backfired.

Let's remember that the attempt to isolate and "strangle" Hamas failed is because Hamas had been weakening the barrier for months before knocking sectrions down and allowing people/supplies in and out. Egypt failed to secure its border, and stood by and allowed supplies and probably elements from Hamas, al Qaeda and Qods into Gaza.

La Repubblica also reports that Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal is headed to Egypt to discuss the policing of the border. Think about that; do the chickens discuss the policing of the hen house with the fox?

Don't be fooled.

Egypt and Hamas Resupplied The Terrorists
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 1-2-2008

You have to admit, Hamas did checkmate Israel over the move into the Northern Sinai.

I gather the last thing Egypt wants is a new influx of rabid Islamic fanatics who will try to destabalise the Mubarak government.

I am sure also that just as the Palestinians are unwanted in Jordan because of their extremism, that Egypt won't want them either. That leaves Egypt in a quandary, they can hardly use force to drive them back into Gaza, as that will alienate the Egyptian government in the Muslim world.

But they also can't leave them there unchecked to build a military presence and use it as a base to attack Israel, and internally the Egyptian regime.

Israel has some difficult issues as well. They can't leave the Palestinians to fester in Northern Sinai either, for the same reasons.

Imagine if the Muslim Brotherhood succeeded in taking over Egypt. That would be some threat to counter considering its armed with American military equipment.

Neither Israel nor Egypt are allowed to insert troops into the border region as it breaks the demilitarized zone on the border. I bet that in the background both countries are hard at work together trying to figure out a way to minimize the Hamas cancer in the hregion.

What is a real pity is that they just can't push Hamas out of Gaza altogether, back to beyond the Egyptian line.
By netchicken: posted on 1-2-2008

As we both know how the whole mess got started in the first place I'll skip over that part and point out what Syria did in regard to their Muslim Brotherhood problem.

In 1982, President Assad had his forces surround the Muslim Brotherhood's stronghold and then spend about three weeks leveling the city. Hama was no little vilalge; it was Syria's 4th largest city. It is estimated that approximately 20,000 Syrians were killed. At the end of the seige, no more problem.

The tunnels that have been feeding arms, explosives and personnel from the Egyptian side are not the result of the Egyptians doing a swell job of thwarting terrorist activities. Approximately 30 BILLION dollars we've paid the Egyptians in the last 30 years to play nice. I want my money's worth and ain't getting it!
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 1-2-2008

I DONT AGREE!!! EGYPT NEVER SUPPORT ANY FORM OF TERRORISM!!!

... Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas_Crowne
[color=red]To prove that the Arabs are more interested in the eventual destruction of Israel than they are in the plight of the poor Arab-Palestinians, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in an Italian newspaper that Gaza will never be part of Egypt, and that the Israeli atempt to strangle Hamas backfired.
Let's remember that the attempt to isolate and "strangle" Hamas failed is because Hamas had been weakening the barrier for months before knocking sectrions down and allowing people/supplies in and out. Egypt failed to secure its border, and stood by and allowed supplies and probably elements from Hamas, al Qaeda and Qods into Gaza.
Egypt and Hamas Resupplied The Terrorists
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I HAVE NO IDEA WHY MUBAREK IS LETTING THOSE PALESTINIANS IN??!!!HOW COME A SOVEREIGN NATION LIKE (EGYPT) BE A TOY IN A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION'S HANDS LIKE HAMAS ???BUT HOWEVER THE PART I DIDNT LIKE IN YOUR POST IS EGYPT WAS NEVER AND IT WONT BE A SUPPLIER OR SUPPORTER FOR TERRORISM WE ARE SUFFERING AS MUCH AS ISRAEL DOES??? I WONDER HOW COME WE ARE UNABLE TO SECURE OUR BORDERS !!!THIS IS HILARIOUS!!!?? I THINK MUSLIMS BROTHERS HOOD WHICH ARE REALLY NOTHING BUT ANOTHER TERRORIST PARTY WHO IS SUPPORTING TERRORISTS AND IRAN AS WELL IS PART OF WHATS GOIN ON AND THEY MAKE IT EASIER FOR COOPERATION AND SUPPLIES BETWEEN IRAN AND HAMAS AND ALL TERRORISTS LIKE HEZBOLAH!!!!!?????? I THINK ITS REALLY TIME FOR PARADIGM SHIFT IN EGYPT MUBAREK SEEMS TO BE UNABLE TO EVEN MAINTAIN OUR SECURITY ???AND BRING LIBERAL EGYPT !!! FIRST THING IS TO ELEMINATE THAT MUSLIMS BROTHERS HOOD MOVEMENT AND KICK THOSE PALESTIANS WHO R NOTHING BUT A PAIN IN DE A**!??? WE HAD ENOUGH OF CORRUPTION IN EGYPT WE DONT WANT TO ADD MORE!!?? BESIDES WE NEED TO MAKE MAJOR STEPS TOWARDS FULLY COLLABORATION WITH OUR NEIGHBOUR ISRAEL .
By alley: posted on 3-2-2008

Full colalboration with Israel, as with the rest of the Western world, would be an excellent thing, but Egypt seems to be defenseless in this. Secret police rounding up converts to Christianity, Egyptian judges ruling IAW sharia - Once Muslim Always Muslim and the inability for whatever reason to prevent the tunnels on the Gaza/Egyptian border that supplied Hamas for months while Hamas worked to bring down the barrier...

There is no doubt that the Muslim Brotherhood as well as Iran's Hezbollah is in the mix, but one has to ask, why is it that the Egyptian forces are unable to do more? It isn't as if Egypt isn't a capable force!

Can you gice us some insight on this, please? I would be very grateful.
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 3-2-2008

about the tunnels i think egyptian government has taken very procedure to shut them down and ofcourse full collaboration with all western countries as well as israel is a must , on the other hand it will be a great benefit to my home egypt economically and scieantifically , as for converting i prefer egypt's constitution needs some change , i believe tht religion is something personal and should remain so , we have to take religion out of our official papers like ID CARDS which is soo vital in any nation , definitly its time to liberal egypt , as it was before when a lot of jews were in egypt living side by side with muslims and christians, however a lot of egyptians are with full collaboration with israel we DONT HATE ISRAEL , EGYPT IS A LAND OF PEACE AND TOLERANCE TO ALL PEOPLE ALONG ITS HISTORY !!! we need peace away from those terrorists egypt still in its developing phase and we need to build a democratic free liberal egypt , we need our government to be elected by people of egypt to have our own country out and clean of corruption thts all what we looking for and to live in peace and harmony with israel , ENOUGH WAR AND BLOOD IN THE AREA !!!!!!!!!!!!
By alley: posted on 3-2-2008

Hi Alley welcome to the board, its great to have someone from the region posting :)

I think that Egypt and Turkey are in a similar situation. Both are secular states and both are under pressure from militant Islam.

I totally agree with your desire for peace in Egypt, do you think that Egypt is influenced by the other Arab nations to be more Islamic?

What do you think would be the best thing to do with the Rafah border? Totalll shutting it off might give bad publicity to the people and countries that support the Palestinians, as well as involving lots of Egyptian military.

Is there much popular support in Egypt for the Palestinian people and their problems?
By netchicken: posted on 3-2-2008

This is very excellent, as a matter of fact.

What else is there for Israel to do at this time, other than try and isolate the problem? If Egypt can't or won't work to prevent the tunnels (which they have not stopped as Israel has found numerous tunnels and hundreds of TONS of explosives and weapons in them) and was not willing or able to stop hundreds of thousands of unknown individuals and cargo from going into and out of Gaza, what is it that Egypt can be counted on to do?

Would the Coptic Christians who get their stores burned when some instigator merely accuses some sort of offense against Allah and throngs of Muslim youths attack agree that Egypt is a place for all peoples and beliefs, or would they say they have to live as dhimmis?

I think there is nobody who wouldn't want Egypt to be the place you want it to be. Egypt is so rich in history, but when the state security police do things like arrest and hold Alaa Ahmed Seif al-Islam, when people aren't allowed to freely practice their religions of Judaism or Christianity or convert as their beliefs lead them.....

You know, my president yelled and screamed about taking the fight to the terrorists. The Muslim Brotherhood is the father of al Qaeda and a thorn in the side of Egypt. I wonder if Bush offered any sort of assistance to Mubarak. What is it that is needed to destroy the Muslim Brotherhood?

Alley, good luck getting rid of government corruption as you want, and if you figure out how to do it, tell me. Maybe it'll work in Washington, D.C., too. If you took all the corrupt politicians out of Washington the remaining politicians could ride to work together in a very small car! :)
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 3-2-2008

That which was feared would happen seems to have happened....


Shin Bet security services chief Yuval Diskin told government ministers on Sunday that large quantities of advanced weapons have been smuggled into the Gaza Strip since the border between Egypt and the Gaza Strip was breached 12 days ago.

Diskin listed long-range rockets, anti-tank missiles, anti-aircraft missiles and materials used for rocket production as some of the arms brought into the coastal territory.

Security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, also said that dozens of Palestinian militants trained in Iran managed to return to Gaza, after months of being refused entry.

Diskin also said that terror organizations had strategically relocted dozens of militants and that the Shin Bet has located 30 points where it is possible to penetrate the border between Sinai and the Negev. He said intelligence shows that 20 of those points are in use by terrorists. Israeli security has been reinforced along the border with Egypt for fear of terrorist infiltration.

weapons prepositioned for breach taken into Gaza

The Egyptians must know that the barrier was prepared well in advance and that the breakout was not an act of desparation, and they must know that large containers prepositioned and wenched over with cranes was not impromptu food supplies gathered for the young and the elderly.


How far will the weapons now reach in order to kill innocent people in Israel? When will the world recognize the situation as it is and quit trying to ride the fence, pretending that Gaza is something other than a weapon against the Israelis?
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 4-2-2008

"Gaza is not occupied, so why should Israel have any role [at the Gaza-Egypt border crossing] when it has no presence on the border between Egypt and Gaza?" argued Mohammed Nuseir, a member of Hamas' political bureau, on Saturday.

This is an interesting position for several reasons. First, it is the first time an official Hamas representative has explicitly stated that the Gaza Strip is no longer occupied. This means that Hamas will absolve Israel of responsibility for what happens there, as long as Israel no longer actually controls the Gaza-Egypt border.

At the same time, it puts Egypt in the difficult position of being Gaza's only outlet to the world - which means that it will also be held responsible for the Strip's economic plight.

That is exactly what is giving Cairo headaches. Egypt would be happy to serve as a shopping center for 1.5 million Gaza residents and provide them with services that could bring over $1.5 billion a year into its coffers. But it does not want to be responsible for security in Gaza. Its baseline position - that Gaza is occupied territory, and any solution to its problems is inseparable from a solution in the West Bank - remains unchanged.

Therefore, Egypt has adopted a policy of pretense. It pretends that there is a responsible government in Gaza with which it is willing to negotiate on opening the border crossings, but refuses to recognize this government as the government of Palestine. It pretends that an open-door policy in Gaza can be isolated from a comprehensive political solution, but insists on the necessity of such a solution.
Egypt wants cake and eat it, too
This is a very good read and puts things into perspective.
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 5-2-2008

first thank you net chicken i totally agree with you that egypt and turkey are exactly in the same position , but regardless of what turks are doing banning hejab i think its a personal freedom in expressing one's religion nothing wrong with tht, as i wish to egypt for conversion to be legal and people should accept it one is free totally free religion is somthing personal, well thomas i think its useless to ask mr.bush to help mubarek it seems tht himself needs some one to help him lol !!!

Egypt has its own intellectual , experienced and qualified individuals to lead the change all we really do need are two main things :

1-unity from all egypt's people cause a change has to be from inside purely ,

2- supporting and helping hand from outside world cause of course we will need help on our way to do major repairs in our system to learn from other developed countries learning is essential .. gaza (way before in days of saddat hero of peace) had to be ruled by those palestnians, they also need to live in peace how ever what they are doing right now to my people not proving their claims at all !!!

but its complicated , we have two nations living beside each other egypt and israel there was nothing called palestine to be honest ,but we now stuck in this situation just a remark for the record if israel gave those palestnians a piece of land to live on it 1967 and let them have what so called palestine a tons of problems would be avoided ,

anyway we were feeling emotionally attached to those (i agree a majority stil thinks tht way) palestnians but not after wht happened i just hope the majority will change their mind soon cuz it turned to be they r using our borders for suspected activities other than those of humanitarian needs,

but in order to full collaboration we have to insure peace first in area first israel has to be more flexible with it securing its own interests too as i see it from my humbled point of view ofcourse

experts will have the final saying israel needs to get rid of headaches caused by palestnian voices claiming they want freedom give them a piece of land but lets put A JOINED FORCES of three nations as well as u.n troops in order to maintain peace & order all majority in egypt will agree on this especially after what happened and ofcourse a mutual benefit is the target , commercial relations between all the area is a great profit for all of us ,

we will secure our order even by force but we dont want to break a treaty between two great countries no military forces are allowed to be there on borders!!!

but we need to make an exception this time only we have to secure our borders in order to keep peace .........

muslim brotherhood i consider it as a terrorist group which needs to be vanished...

i just wish egypt to be liberal as it was in king farouk's time way during WWI &WWII when jews ,christians arthodox or anglicans or catholics and muslims were living in the same place

as for me my grand mother used to tell me stories about how egypt was and she had a lots of jews friends , her two best friends were jews and they were living in same building her front neighbor was christian , these times were the best ever tht was 1949 my grandma said ...............................
By alley: posted on 6-2-2008

Yes, Alley, I agree that my current president is in need of political help at this time, and I don't think that would be the case had he carried out a "war on terrorists" rather than getting sucked into Iraq.

Spending political clout in assisting Egypt, as well as offering money to help Egypt aford the fight against the Muslim Brotherhood, would have been helpful in the overall fight against the terrorists. Spending money and political leverage against Iran, who is the main supporter of terror, would have been a lot better as well. Instead, he chose to go to Iraq. But, this president is now on his way out. Let's see what the next will do.

Alley, you suggest Israel should have given land to the Arab-Palestinians in '67? What was going on in '67? Actually, what was going on even before '67? Terror is not a new thing, if you recall. Syria had been harrassing Israel, and Egypt's Nasser, while building up an invasion force along with the the other surrounding Arab countries, shut down the gulf to Israeli shipping and delcared that Israel would be totally wiped away. Also, remember that the "refugees" became so because of the neighboring countries' desire to remove Israel from the region. Look at what was supposed to be Israel, what Israel accepted, and notice that the Arab nations would not even accept that! It is time for the Arab nations to do as Israel had to do with an even larger Jewish refugee population that was created when the loving Arabs robbed them and forced them out - Israel brought them in and did not attempt to make them a political tool against anyone.

Liberalization of Egypt would be nice, Alleyl; it would be nice for the Christians to be able to live in security and not in fear, and the same with the Jews, for that matter. Still, this is such an alien way of thinking that even YOU are in danger for speaking like this on this board. Your own bloggers, speaking against Egypt's ways of today, have been imprisoned.

I'm very glad you are here with us, Alley. You are very brave, and I want to hear more of your thoughts and opinions! Thank you for being with us!!
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 6-2-2008

thank you thomas, but iam not making up stuff to give them reason for arresting me even if they did my words will speak louder all i want is peace thts all wht i am saying .but christians are not in fear one of the major national three companies in providing wireless and cellular phones services its called (MOBINIL) he is christian ENG.nabil saweras check him out !!! regardless of tons of egyptian christians who live entirley freely in peace and harmony!!!! its the truth and truth has to be revealed!!! but jews are not , thts main concern among some issues regarding freedom in egypt , people who converts are in great danger whether converting from christianity to any religion or from islam to any religion this is so barbaric!! religion is something personal , why we have to be concerned about jews businessmen and their travelling to egypt and on egyptian businessmen who travel to israel !! we will avoid unnecessary clashes , as for palestinians in 67' they were pretending they have no land and israel was made over their dead bodies and things like that israel could have avoided
those claims in 73 y giving them a land to be ruled by their own people !!
wht i am trying to say to make them lose their logical reason for terrorism
which useless talk about it right now , all we need is to secure our borders...... as for the help i asked i DIDNT MEAN MONEY ofcourse this would be a great help , but its not only the war on terrorism or muslim brotherhood we need money to fight ,we dont need it we only backing off them cuz of human rights watch !!!! they will say yes egypt still living in dark ages arresting people for no reason!........wht i asked HELPIN DEVELOPING
EGYPT!!! nuclear power for civil purposes , technology training in order for egypt to be a great chance for investing in any field and tht will save investors alot !! if human resources be found highly qualified trained dnt forget cheap as well !! which would be a great mutual benefit FOR EVERY ONE...... egypt is always been a land of peace ....... imagine how much a major company would save if they establish a production line or even whole production facility in a place like egypt !!! .....
By alley: posted on 7-2-2008

Hi Alley....welcome to SUCU

I am so interested in what your take is on this:

 http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com...

Are you suffering any internet problems and whats the news in Egypt have to say about all this?
By Venus: posted on 7-2-2008

Israel was made over their dead bodies? That is not true at all.
I offer this for you to consider:
http://www.stopsharialaw.net/?p=30

The Arab-Palestinians have shown that giving them land will not stop the violence, as we have seen in Gaza. It is their leaders' own words that they will not rest as long as Israel has even a piece of land the size of a postage stamp. There will be no peace simply because the Arab-Palestinians are given land. You say Egypt has always been a land of peace,m but again, I have to point to the fact that Egypt was there to attack Israel on her birthday, Nasser led the way in 1967 and Sadat led the coordinated surprise attack against Israel on the holiest of Jewish holidays, Yom Kippur. Sure, Sadat signed for peace with Israel, the same year the U.S. started paying Egypt millions a year for that peace. I'm sure you can see why Egypt might not be trusted.

It seems that the the world isn't trusting about the notion that the Coptics in Egypt are as secure as you suggest. Having read books about their plight, and these books being written by Christians who have escaped the plight and have described their stores being burned by Muslims and having been imprisoned and beaten for something as simple as telling a Muslim about Christ, you can see why there might be those who feel that the Christians in Egypt are not all happy. As a matter of fact, not too long ago I was reading about how the Coptics were getting tired of being dhimmis. I haven't heard anymore since, but you know how the news media is; they lose interest unless there are bloody pictures every day. Still some links you might find of interest.

2006 U.S. state department Religious Freedom report
This one is seven years old, but there has been no indication that things have gotten better but have actually worsened considering reports are that the Egyptian government has gotten more conservative:
Disappearing Christians of the Middle East

Here is an interesting article about Muslims having the freedom to abandon Islam for Christianity. Notice that there is that caveat that makes it not as it sounds:
U.S. Copts Association

This is the banner across the following message board. I am also including the link to the board. I believe the board is in your language, that should be helpful to you.
Copts (Christians of Egypt) are not asking for special treatment to compensate for centuries of discrimination and persecution. They are only asking for equality. They donít want anything more, and they will not settle for anything less. It is hard to believe that , at the turn of the 21st century,equality to Copts remains a luxury they still dream of. This at a time when the rest of the civilized world considers equality a birth right to be taken for granted
Copts forum

I am very much in agreement with you in regard to nuclear power in Egypt, especially if Egypt were to become a free, "liberal" nation as you want. Nuclear energy is cheaper and cleaner and would greatly benefit the Egyptian people. I hope this is something that can be accomplished in the near future! Of course, with nuclear power plants come certain concerns such as security, accidents and waste disposal, but the energy makes the risks worth it! I wish you very good luck with this!!

I should probably go to bed as it is late here (or very early, depending on how one looks at it). I look forward to reading more from you. It is very very nice to have you here. I would love to hear more about Egypt! Thank you so much for being here with us!
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 7-2-2008

thanx venus actually iam not currently in egypt but internet is getting better gradually...........I DISAGREE WITH YOU THOMAS on what you trying to say about copts even though some of them who live in forgein countries are trying to play a bad role in vandalizing egypt's picture in the outside world for their very own interests , even 90% of them are against claims
, i just left egypt recently like 7 months ago, i been in egypt since 1999 and i never ever seen any persecution has taken place towards christians as a matter of fact my best two friends are christians sara & nabil ... did you find out about a great egyptian-christian businessman ENG.NABEEL SAWERAS he is an engineer too very respected man he is christian!!!!!! so how come claims are made about their status in egypt and one of them is among the most successful businesmen in egypt!!! if egypt was a races country i dont think businessman will take the risk to jeopardize his business in a races country !!! egypt JUST FOR THE RECORD WAS A GREAT NATION OF PEACE history talks ..... for NASSER HE WAS A MAD MAN like hetler or what ever a shame for my country however SADAT WAS A MAN OF PEACE he brought SINAI AS IT WAS AN EGYPTIAN LAND to egypt in 1973 he didnt say he will wipe israel or anything like that actually he been to israel his famous speech before the israeli knesset here is the link http://www.ibiblio.org/sull... and thats exactly how true egyptians feel about israel here is BBC REPORT ONWHAT HAPPENED in 1973 http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthi... we just took our land BACK in a misunderstanding was nasser's fault ....and for U.S reports how come i TRUST A NATION LIKE U.S and their president is lying on them everyday sinking in too many useless wars he is looking for massive destruction weapons this is hilarious!!! SEARCH IRAQ FOR NUCLEAR WEAPONS THEY GOT OUT OF THERE EMPTY HANDED how come i trust their reports !!!!!! you need to see situation a little bit closer whenever you planning in vacation to some where near egypt just think about stopping there for a while it is a very pleasure to be your host or anyone else you are all welcome guys , just expressing old tradition we EGYPTIANS are famous with(hospitality) and see before your eyes what is really going on and hear from christians actually not only my best friends but other respected well educated individuals as well and you will see exactly the situation we are all as egyptians need to change our country to be a better place to live in ...thts all we need freedoms for everyone who live in egypt freedom to convert from christianity to any religion and from islam to any religion , freedom to express our opinions freely whether it was politically or anything else freedom of choosing our president by decent elections freedom to live as any developed free country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..... and U.S money were compensations for what happened to egypt during war of 1967 , which three countries has taken the attack u.k france and israel three of our major coastal cities were grounded bombings were every where 100 000 people died during that assault on egypt can u imagine threeeee countries attacking one isolated country and killing civilians oh my godness that was brutal !!!! thts exactly how i feel for israel right now and i understand its fears!!! we r a great nation of peace and we welcome israel in the area living side by side as any neighbor we dont interfere in their inner affairs and israel doesnt interfere in ours as well, U.S itself the one who pretends to be defender of justice A MOTHER OF DISCRIMINATION , SOME OF OUR EGYPTIAN CHRISTIANS ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED IN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BASED ON THEIR ETHICAL BACKGROUND AS ARABS!!!!!!!!!! have yourself a good one every one ....
By alley: posted on 8-2-2008

I'm sorry, but when is this that Egypt was attacked by the U.K., France and Israel? The U.K. and France did not attack Egypt. Israel was the only one and that was after peaceful Egypt declared war on Israel. Let us not try and make Egypt the victim in the war creaqted by Egypt and its Arab allies, please.

Again the peaceful Sadat, along with Syria, attacked Israel during Yom Kippur in 1973. Please, let's not paint him as a saint, huh? Before he addresses the Knesset he tried to destroy it and the rest of Israel. As for the Sinai, it was taken from Egypt in a defensive war and therefore was no longer Egypt's. Israel traded it for peace, as they always trade as a losedr even though they are always the victor.

Let us remember, with regard to the U.S. and Iraq, a senior military member of the former Iraqi military said that of course there was special weapons (chemical and biological), and of course Hussein wanted nuclear weapons, but the material was removed from Iraq, with the bulk being sent to Syria. If you remember, or saw, satellite images even revealed the convoys going over into Syria! Only an idiot would think that our forces were going to find any weapons. It was extremely stupid to wait for so long, allowing Hussein all the time to clean up before the visitors to arrive.

It was stupid to go after Hussein, anyway. Iran is and was the number one exporter and supplier of terror in the region. It would have been the logical target, but that didn't happen. Or, one could easily make the case that Saudi Arabia exports more considering it funds the spreading of radical Wahhabi Islam all over the world, including the U.S., but we would never harm the Sauds considering they act as our reserve and the House of Saud bought Washington D.C. way back during Nixon's administration.

I have to tell you also, that Copts in the U.S. are not discriminated in the U.S. for any reason, unless you want to say that they are discriminated against as are the rest of us Christians. Today's political correctness environment makes it rude to discriminate against anyone except Christians. We Christians are the only ones who can be demeaned, ridiculed or made fun of without having some civil rights organization suing.
It's early morning for you, so I hope you have a beautiful day, Alley! I look forward to seeing you tomorrow.
Oh, and I would love to visit Egypt one day, by the way!

If you ever come to America, do not fear that you will be forced into Christianity. This does not happen. On the other hand, Wafaa Constantine Messiha may disagree with your notion that Egyptian Christians are all happy and well treated.

... Quote:
Over 3,000 Coptic demonstrators gathered yesterday and today in Cairo, el-Minia, el-Behara and Assiut provinces to protest what they say is the abduction and forced conversion to Islam of Wafaa Constantine Messiha, the wife of a Coptic priest based in Egypt. Demonstrators charged Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has been indifferent to Coptic pleas for protection from Muslim-led persecution, and called on the U.S. to immediately intervene.

"The situation in Egypt is exploding every minute for the last three days," Emil Zaki, vice president of the U.S. Copt Association told WorldNetDaily. "Muslims are regularly attacking Copts, and they kidnapped the wife of a priest to force her to convert to Islam."

Zaki, who says he has been in hourly contact with the protest leaders, said he was told the Egyptian government has barred foreign journalists from attending the rallies. He said only state-run and Arabic networks have been allowed to report from the protest sites.

Indeed, the only media outlet with footage of the protests, Al Jazeera, reported Messiha was not kidnapped, but willingly converted to Islam and ran away from her husband.

"The government wont be able to keep the situation hidden from the international media for long, with clashes increasing by the minute," said Zaki.

Although Egypt's native Christian Coptic population, which constitutes between 8 and 15 percent of Egypt's population depending on which statistical information is used, have long clashed with Muslim extremists, demonstrators say a recent rise in anti-Coptic sentiment has prompted an escalation in violence.

Recent crimes cited by the demonstrators include an increased rate of kidnapping, rapes and forced conversion of young Coptic women.

They said on Friday Muslim villagers stormed and set fire to a building housing a Coptic prayer room. The mob then swept through the village, looting and burning Coptic homes and businesses, destroying a Coptic priest's car and injuring several Copts in the process, the demonstrators said. They claim the mob was prompted by an announcement that Mubarak refused a request by a local Coptic community to build a church.

In a letter to President Bush, Michael Meunier, president of the U.S. Copts Association, appealed for his immediate intervention with Mubarak on behalf of Egypt's persecuted Copts.

"Mubarak's regime has not only ignored, but in many cases contributed to the alarming increase in anti-Coptic violence," said Meunier. "Only President Bush's personal intervention can help prevent the escalation of these hate crimes into full-fledged cultural genocide."

An online petition prompted by the association, asks U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, through the U.S. ambassador in Egypt, David Welch, "to interfere and demand the release of Mrs. Messiha from her captors, and put and end to the police brutality, terror and organized persecution against the Coptic Christians of Egypt."

"Please be advised that thousands of Coptic Christian youth are currently demonstrating for her release inside and around churches in several provinces, including Cairo, and being subjected to brutality by local police and security forces," says the petition.

The Coptic Church, a major Christian community in Egypt, reportedly dates back to the origins of Christianity. Christians were the majority in Egypt until several centuries after the Arab conquest of the seventh century.

The church is headed by the "patriarch and pope of Alexandria, Pentapolis and Ethiopia," who is elected by the entire community of clergy. His permanent residence is in Cairo.

Christian persecution in Egypt
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 8-2-2008

ofcourse egyptian christians are living in peace how do you explain their businessmen controlling 60% of egypt's economy while they are being persecuted!! this is unbelievable i live in egypt and i know better cause as i said before my two best friends are christians i dont prefer to call them christians rather than saying they are egyptians not even coptics cause for your knowledge (copts) were the ancient word to egyptians during the past days after roman invasion to pharoahic egypt and burning ordothox churches to ground and calling it church of satan !! so basically anyone who was born in egypt is coptic by right of birth !!! there is no such a thing attaching coptics to christianity at all!!!!!!!!!!i am not afraid of any one to converting me to any other religion cause no one has the right to force a religion on me its something personal as it should remain so !!! i believe in buddhism so it does not mean tht my religion has to be buddhism??actually buddhism itself it is not a religion !! i dont think i want visit U.S i told my boss tht please if you have to send anywhere outide egypt i am ready to go to mangolia but please dont send me to states I DONT LIKE IT!!!!! but thanx for your offer anyway ....... i qouted a paragraph (What followed was the invasion of Egypt by Britain, France, and Israel, an action known as the Tripartite Invasion or the 1956 War. Whereas the truth about the invasion eventually became known, at the time the Conservative government in London denied that it used Israel as an excuse for attacking Egypt. Eden, who had an intense personal dislike for Nasser, concealed the cooperation with Israel from his colleagues, British diplomats, and the United States) check it out 1956 war with joining forces of u.k france & israel I KNOW IT CAUSE MY GRAND FATHER AND ALL MY FATHER'S FAMILY DIED IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so dont tell me it didnt exist as expected and for christians raising false claims about persecution i dont prefer to call them egyptians cause they are not they are just after their own interests and for your knowledge as well they HATE JEWS SOME OF THOSE CHRISTIANS WHO PRETENDING TO BE EGYPTIANS THEY SAID JEWS HAVE TO ADMIT THEIR FAULT IN KILLING JESUS AND ASKING FORGIVNESS FIRST CHECK IT OUT ALSO!!!!!!!!!! i swear to god of jews ,christians buddhists and muslims i swear to ONLY ONE CREATOR OF THIS UNIVERSE tht this is truth !!! enemy of my enemy is my friend rule is not applying here!!!!!!! egypt is been and it will remain a land of peace and really wants to have full relations with israel as any other country in the world !!! christian persecution i tell u who protestants anglicans yeaa hell yea they are in great suffering CAUSED BY ordothox(eastern church) christians !!! catholic and maronic churches are fighting them all !!! not muslims fighting christians wake up and smell the coffee if you tell me anything happened in your home town or your place right now i will believe you then why you r not believing me although you have never been there or have you ??? there is a saying it goes like this (BELIEVE HALF OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND ALL OF WHAT YOU SEE) hopefully you got it !!!!!
By alley: posted on 9-2-2008

BRUTAL ASSAULT ON EGYPT WAR OF 1956  http://www.globalsecurity.o...
By alley: posted on 9-2-2008

On October 28, Israeli troops crossed the frontier into the Sinai Peninsula (also seen as Sinai), allegedly to destroy the bases of Egyptian commandos. The first sign of collusion between Israel and Britain and France came on the same day when the Anglo-French ultimatum was handed to Egypt and Israel before Israel had even reached the canal. British bombing destroyed the Egyptian air force, and British and French paratroopers were dropped over Port Said and Port Fuad. The Egyptians put up fierce resistance. Ships were sunk in the canal to prevent transit. In the battle for Port Said, about 22,700 Egyptian civilians were killed or wounded.

THE STORY OF 1956WAR GOES LIKE THIS NASSER WHO was AN EX-DICTATOR declared that suez canal company a company with french administration and some british and israeli stock holders responsible for controlling navigations through suez canal , he took over the company and declare it an egyptian company 100% well eventually and by-law this compa was going to be egyptian after 10 more years as the agreement said between king farouk and the company before nasser reached presidency ...... british army as well as french army in a company of some israeli troops were attacking egypt brutally !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By alley: posted on 9-2-2008

Let's get a couple things in order, Alley, and first thing is that you stated the following...

... Quote:
..... and U.S money were compensations for what happened to egypt during war of 1967 , which three countries has taken the attack u.k france and israel...


Notice, you said nothing about 1956. Please, stop yelling at me about your errors.

Speaking of errors, I see that your copy and pasting of the Global Security article has one little difference, and that is this:
... Quote:
The Egyptians put up fierce resistance. Ships were sunk in the canal to prevent transit. In the battle for Port Said, about 2,700 Egyptian civilians and soldiers were killed or wounded.


You have in your post:
... Quote:
The Egyptians put up fierce resistance. Ships were sunk in the canal to prevent transit. In the battle for Port Said, about 22,700 Egyptian civilians were killed or wounded.


You are dishonest. That is to say, you are a lying. I know for a fact that you are being dishonest about the Christian persecution in Egypt considering their plight has even been in the news. Altering the copywrite article to mislead others (I don't take other people's word, as you can see; I read the source for myself) is beyond words.

You are also claiming to be currently in Egypt and we both know that you aren't. That is to say, again you are lying. Considering there is a word for lying to the infidels, "taqiyya", I have no reason to believe you are actually a Bhuddist, either.

Thank you for the opportunity to get to know you, I shall take my leave at this time. Also, thank you for deciding to not come to the States, even though you are very close to them at this time. We already have people who are alien to the truth, but it isn't taqiyya that they practice, it is called "politics"! :tongue
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 9-2-2008

first of all i am not a liar !!! and TOTAL casualties of people died in 1956 war were that number 22,700 i pasted iam glad you read the article cause they pasted only the number was recorded only in one city PORT SAID which is a small coastal egyptian city, secondly what happened with christians you are being mislead by what is written it is so easy i can fabricate anything upload it on any site an there you go !!! i live in the area so i know better than you ofcourse cause i see before my own eyes !!! and for (TAQIYYA) this is sha'ii culture and part of their religion see islam was divided into sooo many parties like christianity as well there are marons anglicans catholic ordothox , it is the same there are sunni shaii bahai and so on so forth so I DONT NEED LIES WHAT I KNOW ARE BRIGHT FACTS CRYSTAL CLEAR and now you r yelling and screaming and making fun of my name, is not that called ignorance ??? total ignorance thts the the main reason why i dont like to visit states its boring full of ignorant arrogant people!!!!! life is about talking and its okay if you disagree with some one it doesnt mean that you have to vanish them or wipe them from face of earth !!!! you are making all this cuz you dont want the world to know the truth they already do you left everything considering our conversation about 1956 war that you pretended it didnt exist NOW IT TURNED THAT REALLY ISRAEL UK AND FRANCE DID THAT BRUTAL ASSAULT regardless of real numbers of casualties among civilians , be honest as for a change thomas iam not goin to make fun of your name even though iam close to them i dont know what the hell is that mean!!!! but anyway i will just going to forget about it cause it is not a war between me and you i dont even know you ..... like my people i am man of peace and we expect from everyone to act the same or is it so hard for you??? states is land of persecution you persecuting anyone who is arabic even if he was christian as well as coloured people asains blacks , give me a break now states want to be the guardian angel for christians in egypt which is all a big lie people like you just made it up, what do you know about a country u never visited !!! come on man be rational dont jump of your seat calling people names for the sake of an illusion about persecution , u making a hussle about numbers what happened to holocaust real casualties number the number has been changed many many times by a lot of people some time they tried to make it small some times not they tried to hide the truth but as usual truth is been revealed !!! if i ask you the number right now i wont dishonest you why not ???,,, its part of what happened to your people so i will believe you even if what iam hearing is contradicting !!! it is all about trust and you know what iam not gonna judge all jews by one individual i am pretty sure there are some intellectual rational and understanding jews out there whom a bridge of cooperation shall be built with them!!!!!! we all live in the same world and it happened that we live side by side so it is better for both of us to live in peace other wise all of us will have to deal with consequences, .......... pretty much you got it !!!!
By alley: posted on 10-2-2008

NOW A PALESTINIAN MISSILE IS DROPPED OVER EGYPTIAN'S LAND this is hilarious those palestinians after we helped them so many times for humanitarian purposes now they are acting all crazy and decided to punish egypt who are they to miss with egypt's peace our foreign-affairs minister mr.ahmad abo el eghiet has clearly made our point who ever tries to cross our borders illegally his legs shall be broken , i dont under stand those palestinians and their leaders are so strange in their actions , anyway at least our borders are secured now ..................
By alley: posted on 10-2-2008

Answer me this "man of peace"......how can you say:

... Quote:
states is land of persecution you persecuting anyone who is arabic even if he was christian as well as coloured people asains blacks , give me a break now states want to be the guardian angel for christians in egypt which is all a big lie people like you just made it up, what do you know about a country u never visited !!!


and then in the next breath say:

... Quote:
our foreign-affairs minister mr.ahmad abo el eghiet has clearly made our point who ever tries to cross our borders illegally his legs shall be broken , i dont under stand those palestinians and their leaders are so strange in their actions , anyway at least our borders are secured now ..................



and also....I am wondering how many visits YOU have made to the United States? or Canada?
By Venus: posted on 10-2-2008

Nope, you are a liar, and I pointed out all the places. Let me point out something else about your lies.

You continues to insist that Egypt is peaceful, and that has not beenthe case as you well know. You attempted to mix the '56 war with the '67 war, and you knew better than that. That is deceit, and that is the same thing as lying.

You brought up the '56 war, though, so why not bring up the rest of it? Why don't you discuss how Egypt's Nasser spelled out his intentions the year before; "Egypt has decided to dispatch her heroes, the disciples of pharaoh and the sons of Islam and they will cleanse the Land of Israel...."
How peaceful is that? This peaceful: "There will be no peace on Israel's border because we demand vengeance, and vengeance is Israel's death."

What happened in July of 1956, Alley? Training the fedayeen and equipping them to attack Israel wasn't good enough, was it? Nope. A blockade of the straits of Tiran to stop Israeli shipping was used to try and strangle Israel. What did Egypt's leader say?
"I am not solely fighting against Israel itself. My task is to deliver the arab world from destruction through Israel's intrigue, which has its roots abroad. Our hatred is very strong. There is no sense in talking about peace with Israel. There is not even the smallest place for negotiations.

The blockade is an act of war, as you should know.
You should know that the war occured because of your "peaceful" people's continuous belligerency.

Your people are a people of peace? Is it hard for you to understand that your people's historical actions don't match up with your claims?
Furthermore, I confirm that youo tampered with the number in the article, inflating the dead.

Egypt: Politics and Society, 1945-1990
Global Security

As I said, you added another "2" to inflate the number ten fold.

You might do fine with your own people, passing around lies to make yourselveds feel good, but those of us in the rest of the world can read the unfettered history.

Save your taqiyya, I'm not that stupid.

Just to set the record straight, we have not suggested being the guardians of the Copts, although they need guarding from both the Egyptian authorities as well as the Muslim population there. I have much more reason to believe the Coptic authors of books, telling of the persecution, and I have more reason to believe the news coming out of the region, than I do your words. It is YOU who I have caught and proven to not tell the truth, not them.

What did you tell me; try the truth erven for one time? Something like that?
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 10-2-2008

ACTUALLY YOU ARE NOT JUST STUPID BUT SO ARROGANT IGNORANT PERSON , TAQIYYA is for shaii iam not one of SHAII , ACTUALLY FORGET ABOUT MY RELIGION IT IS SOMETHING PERSONAL NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!! you are just making up stories and every one in the real world not your (world) knows the complete story i didnt say nasser was a good peaceful president and the real number is what i said , as it has done with your holocaust real number its pretty much the same and you dont play with history things are written their WE CANT CHANGE IT so wake up and learn the history first you dont argue some one with his/her country's history so please save us your erratic behavior which expected it turned to be that you are very extremist person races as well!!! so i dont think you gonna understand a word of what i am saying simply cause a narrow minded person is far away from any understanding!!! war as it was explained begun first in1956war then it followed by 1967war after that dectator who simply was a narrow minded person just like you was soo stupid that he wanted to fight the all world , but after simply israel TOOK OVER SINAI AS A RESULT OF 1967 WAR then after nasser's death SADDAT came to be president from here started another war it was 1973 war the only reason for this war was to TAKE OUR SINAI BACK WHICH ISRAEL TOOK IT 1967 thats all what we have here three wars first brutal assault after the suez canal company was declared egyptian 100% during nasser reign which called 1956 war what you expect from a country being attacked by three countries!!! then during this time israel took over sinai which lead to miserable war 1967 after nasser has gone which is good for egypt sadat came and led a 1973 war and we got OUR SINAI BACK thats all the story so please DONT RAISE EMPTY ISSUES which has nothing to do completely with our discussion and be honest as i said just for a change OMG how you enjoying turning truths into lies this is so disgusting i feel pity foR you , but again i am pretty sure we will find some jews who will be ready for TRUE FAIR PEACE hopefully they will be in high places in israel ready for protecting innocence incarnated in our children who got nothing to do with our stupidity they just wanna live in peace!!!! egypt was a land of peace and will remain a LAND OF PEACE and if my people in egypt believing my so called lies then you got nothing to do with IT, you and your country STATES PLEASE BACK OFF AND DONT INTERFERE IN OUR INNER AFFAIRS this is hilarious we didnt ask your help all we need is to live in peace and build our country cause it is still developing !!!
By alley: posted on 11-2-2008

Again, and as usual, you use your taqiyya (Officially sanctioned by Muhammad, therefore all Muslim sects can use it) to spread deceit and twist facts.

As you know, 56 wasn't being mentioned in this conversation when you brought it up as if it was 67. That makes you a liar, and an arrogant one because you think that the rest of us don't know simple history.
You also attempt to assert that Nasser is the only example of Egyptian violence, and we all know that isn't the case. As a matter of fact, are you going to blame Egypt's attack on Israel in 1948 on Nasser? Of course not. You'll have some other deceitful excuse, I am sure.

You should also be honest enough to admit that Egypt lost the Sinai because Egypt lost a war they started. Also, be honest enough to admit that the Yom Kippur war was not merely a war to get back from Israel what Israel rightfully owned due to Egypt's aggression, but Egypt was in concert with otehr Arab nations in yet another attempt to slaughter all Jews and remove their government from Israel.


You, Alley, are the one who raises issues that are not relevant in order to twist the truth and create false history. Futhermore, you DO ask for help, remember? You want people to invest in your country, make you a nuclear power plant, etc. And, you have also enjoyed being the recipient of billiuons of dollars from my country. That is to say, you have received my tax dollars. So, please, don't tell me to not interfere in yourbusiness (how stupid is that to say, as if I can "interfere" with your government's businness). What I will do, though, is to make sure that you and your lies are revealed as you attempt to spew them here on this board. I know, you are angry that your lies are being revealed, but that is your fault, not mine.
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 11-2-2008

TOTAL IGNORANCE YOU THOMAS , TAQEYYA IS FOR SHAII ONLY hehehehe that proves my point of view you are nothing but an ignorant individual who repeats everything like a stupid parrot !!!! it turned to be not only you but another parrot is shouting at me and talking shit the answer is yes i been to delware so called first state , n.y new jersey garden state or what ever detriot hehehehe not detroit which is more enough for me to know the true other face of united states !!! canada i been there to toronto mississauga doryal quebec but i prefer kenya over states !!!! IAM NOT ANGRY AT ALL CAUSE I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, YOU GUYS ARE SEEMED TO BE PISSED OFFF CUZ FINALLY SOME ONE IS TALKING TRUTH IN THIS BOARD , about the money you taking it as a gum what money the money were paid exactly for the corrupted government of egypt to fulfill other objectives what da heck are you talking about???? we both know every shit and dont give me hard time about taqiyya taqiyya is for shaii's you have to know every thing in details about any religion and i expect you to respect islam's prophet mohammed and know what are you talking about there are huge differences between different parties in islam just like christianity was divided into several parties, WITH RESPECT TO ALL RELIGIONS EXPECTING EVERY ONE HERE TO ACT SO ... it seems that a man of peace becomes a shame here !! hehehehe what do you want to be a man of terror LMAO!!! i am a man among a majority of women and men of peace great women great men who dedicate their lives to protect and serve peace regardless of their religion !!!!! as i said and i will remain saying RELIGION IS SOMETHING PERSONAL !!!!!!!! WITH RESPECT TO ALL RELIGIONS!!!!! WHAT IF TURNED TO BE THAT IAM BUDDHIST !!!ARE YOU GONNA STILL SAYING TAQIYYA HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHE TOTAL IGNORANCE ALL I CAN SAY!!!PURE STUPID HYPOCRISY PRETENDING THAT YO WANT PEACE WHICH TURNED TO BE A HUGE LIEEEEEEEE!!!!......LMAO
By alley: posted on 11-2-2008

true i asked for investing in my country and help thts right when a good government comes in egypt not a corrupted one , we all want jews or egyptians(christians muslims buddhists) is peace truely really peace not just words on a piece of paper nothing personal guys but you dont want truth to be revealed and accusing me of lying i am not a liar and you guys know that very well.... number of casualties we know very much that during that time means of statistics were not free and were controlled by governments for political reasons and the article was talking about one city port said !!! this is truth exactly like the REAL NUMBER OF HOLOCAUST CASUALTIES which varied from one article to another !!!!!!!!!!!!! easy there lol no hard feelings unless you dont want true peace which turns to be that you guys are the real terrorists people like you thomas and venus!!!!! easy there peace all we have to implement!!!!!!!!!!!!! regardless of accusing each other of lying which is pointless!!! cause we both know iam not!!!!
By alley: posted on 11-2-2008

Actually, I know that you are attempting to bait and switch, and are trying to twist facts. I know that I have caught you in more than one lie or misrepresentation. I know that nothing that you have said is comparable to the Holocaust, and I also am doubting your desire to be friendly with Christians and Jews because of your dishonesty in other areas.

At first I believed you when you said you are in Egypt and I fugured your warped idea of history is only because you are a bit limited in the facts, just as the Arab-Palestinians are fed garbage by the P.A. and therefore don't know the truth. After seeing that you are, in fact, not in Egypt, I realized that you not only have the opportunity to know the truth, but are intentionally spreading disinformation.

I have no idea what you are trying to say about Venus and me; are you attempting to suggest we are terrorists? I hardly think that even makes sense. Of course, that is merely another tactic to muddy the water, I know.
By Thomas_Crowne: posted on 11-2-2008


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